MSO_Admin

Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Kevin Ashman! He is the winner of yesterday's Fifteen-to-One Millennium Quiz and the only man to win the big quizzing treble: Mastermind, Brain of Britain and the Fifteen-to-one Grand Championship. Trevor Montague will be along momentarily.

Kevin_Ashman

Hello, good evening and welcome! I'm very pleased to be online and pleased to take any questions that you wish to throw at me.

MSO_Admin

We have some questions sent in by e-mail already - but who would like to ask the first question?

DavidBod

"Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?" - a good or bad thing for quizzes? It's brought wide-ranging interest to quizzes, but how can it be topped?

Kevin_Ashman

I'm not sure that it can be topped in any practical sense. Whether it's a good or a bad thing; I don't think it necessarily affects the types of quizzes you're likely to see me on: the likes of Mastermind, Fifteen-to-One, Brain of Britain etc.

MSO_Admin

Ladies and gentlemen, Trevor Montague! The founder of the British Quiz Championships and the organiser of the Quiz event at the Mind Sports Olympiad. We're very glad to have both Trevor and Kevin here.

Kevin_Ashman

I think there probably could be some sort of parallel structure developing, like the traditional diviasion between quiz shows and game shows, and I think Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? was an inevitable development - the sort of idea that somebody somewhere was going to come up with and I don't think there's any going back. There are those of us who are happy to compete for no prize at all but I think there's an element where it's felt necessary to have a reward in order to attract people to watch.

Braveheart

In which year was the world's first 'artificial' heart transplant?

Kevin_Ashman

I think it might be 1982 but I'm not at all sure.

Braveheart

Anyone else? 1982 is incorrect.

Braveheart

The answer is 1969, in the USA.

Kevin_Ashman

A lot further back than I thought.

Trevor

Hi, Braveheart! I was surprised it was so early as well - but I do remember the man's name was Barney.

Kevin_Ashman

That rings a bell with me - Barney Clark, I think.

Braveheart

Yeah... the pump was called "Liotta" and implanted by Dr Denton Cooley.

Trevor

Yes, that's right, Kev, Barney Clark was his name.

MarkL

Some advice you often hear about taking quizzes is that you should go with your first impression. Do you two agree?

Kevin_Ashman

Yes; generally speaking, yes. I think you should go with your first impression; 90% of the time it's going to be correct. Sometimes you can get a wrong answer fixed in your mind in quizzes; you get it wrong the first time, then it gets stuck there and you get it wrong second time as well. That can happen.

Mike

When was the first quiz show on British television - and who presented it?

Kevin_Ashman

That's a good one! I don't honestly know. I would say probably somewhere about 1948 or thereabouts at a guess; I'll say Michael Miles and try "Take Your Pick". 1948 rings a vague bell somewhere, or late forties - but that may be a false memory.

Mike

Does Trevor know?

Trevor

I go back as far as "Double Your Money" and "Take Your Pick" but feel sure there must have been others before the mid-fifties.

MSO_Admin

Mike Flanagan sends a question by e-mail: "Why did you get involved in quizzes?"

Kevin_Ashman

I'd always been interested in quizzes; I'd always watched them on TV - Mastermind, University Challenge and so forth - but I'd never thought seriously about taking part until my mid-20s, when I got involved with an office team, playing in the Civil Service General Knowledge Quiz. The reason I applied for Mastermind in the first place, which was the first one I ever tried for TV, was a combination of other people saying I should try and watching the shows over the years and noticing my own scores increasing. I was in a rut at the time so I applied for Mastermind and got on at my second attempt - and it all started from there.

MSO_Admin

Trevor, is your story similar?

Trevor

Not really; I am from a sporting background and started entering quizzes as a natural progression when the advancement of age meant I was no longer as competitive in that field as I would like to be. I suppose I started seriously in my mid-thirties.

MarkL

Trevor, on the intro page it mentions "sued for the return of his Grand Final prize". Could you give us details about that?

Trevor

Well its a very long story, but to shorten it somewhat, the simple fact is that the producer of the show has a rule that you cannot have more than one uninvited attempt on the show. I had been on the show in 1989 under my own name and managed to get the first two questions wrong. I then applied again under a stage name I had worked under and in 1992 had a second attempt as a ruse. I had worked with William G. Stewart on a show called "Wanted" and I lost the case on a technicality and could not afford the very oppressive appeal costs, so settled out of court with Mr Stewart thereby ending the matter.

Grecian

Kevin, congratulations on your win on the Fifteen to One Millennium Special. The questions were very historical. To both Kevin and Trevor: to what extent is historical knowledge the foundation of your success? And as a self-confessed historical ignoramus, can I ever reach the quizzing pinnacles?

Kevin_Ashman

Yes, with a bit of application. I personally think that if you've studied history, as I did, that's probably the best subject to have studied as a foundation because history can cover anything you like - it's the cornerstone to all other subjects. Dates and chronology tend to be the hooks on which I hang my information; this provides my basic framework. History is probably my strongest subject all round - but it can be done even if you don't have a historical background.

Grecian

I tend to agree. Philosophy and Economics were very poor quiz subjects!

Kevin_Ashman

I sympathise - you're probably quite right!

Trevor

I know that Kev has a similar interest in history as myself, although we approach the subject in very different ways. I love reading general world history but specialise in Tudor history, but Kev is very much a date person and is exceptional at remembering times, dates and places for the foundation of his historical interests.

MarkL

Has any quiz show ever gone bankrupt because people won too much money?

Kevin_Ashman

Not bankrupted - not that I'm aware of. There was a show called "Trivial Pursuit" on Sky where, towards the end of the series, they had to give people money because the daily prize was a holiday; they had bought a job lot of holidays from a company and they hadn't bought enough! The series was 65 shows long and they bought about half that number of holidays because they thought only half the people would win the end game; in the end they had to give cash, or cash equivalent, and let people do their own thing! But I doubt that actually bankrupted them; I was on the very last show of the series and was in that situation!

Trevor

Not that I know of. The accountants generally make sure the shows are budgetted to the n'th degree to ensure that does not happen. Sometimes the jackpot prize is reduced from series to series. I have been on both series of Winner Takes All and the prizes were greatly reduced on the later series. Similarly, when I won the jackpot on Connections, I won £400 although the previous series winner received £1000.

BuzzOrielCox

Why do you think that there are so few proper quiz shows on TV? I've done University Challenge and, I'm ashamed to say, Win Beadle's Money, and at the moment only 15-1 seems the only option.

Kevin_Ashman

I think these things go in phases, quite honestly; you have lean periods and relatively fat period - it happens that as far as proper quiz shows are concerned, this is a lean period. You have Brain of Britain and Mastermind on Radio 4 of course, but there don't seem to be many proper quizzes at the moment. This may just be a passing phase; hopefully there's something better around the corner.

Grecian

Do you think anyone will win the million on "Who wants to be a Millionaire"? Although it would be an easy task for anyone on the Pro Quizzer circuit, it seems beyond the "Man on The Street". What is to be done?

Kevin_Ashman

I think that's a dilmemma for them. Even if people get within 2 or 3 questions of it, with that much money at stake, they're not going to risk it, if they have any sense, so they're going to bail out at 250K or 500K when they might have gone on to win the million. The random selection procedure also means that not too many pro quizzers will make it on; although they didn't make it to the hot seat, one member of the Mastermind club has made it to the last ten. There has been one other contestant who has been on a few other quizzes and actually won £125,000 yesterday, Sylvia Nixon - good luck to her!

Mike

Can you both remember the very first competitive quiz you won? Please tell us about it!

Kevin_Ashman

That includes off-screen as well as on? If you include off-screen, that would have been one at school - one of the very few I took part in when at school. Other than that, it would have been in the Civil Service. In TV terms, it was the first round heat of Mastermind when I was first on there in '87.

Trevor

Mine was a TV quiz - "The Krypton Factor" - and although I won, I must admit the general knowledge ultimately let me down and I was lucky to be pretty good at the other tests in those days.

Mike

What was your worst experience quizzing?

Kevin_Ashman

Oh dear! I'd have to think about that one...

Mike

You don't have to answer. What about your best?

Kevin_Ashman

Probably the worst one was going back to the very beginning when I was on Mastermind the first time; I got to the semi-final and I lost on passes!

Trevor

Losing in the first round of "Winner Takes All" with Bobby Davro. Not only was I beaten on my nemesis of pop music but Bobby Davro kept calling me 'Hoss' - as in Cartwright!

Kevin_Ashman

The same thing happened to me on the same day! I lost to a friend of Trevor's, funnily enough; it was just one of those things - I wouldn't regard that as my worst one.

MSO_Admin

Let's do best experiences now.

Kevin_Ashman

I think winning Mastermind was the best one, closely followed by Brain of Britain - and there's also the associatied ones of "Brain of Brains" and "Top Brain", but they're all part of the same thing - Mastermind was the one with the highest profile.

Trevor

Winning "Today's the Day" with my friend Andy Curtis was special as I managed to treat my father to a Barbados holiday. I also have many happy memories of winning team quizzes with Kev. He is a handy man to have on your side!

BuzzOrielCox

Do you worry about the spate of shows which seem to be aimed at the mass market, and tend to be very easy? It seems unfair that the harder the show, the less the remuneration that you can expect to receive. Is this the way that quizzes are going now?

Kevin_Ashman

I think it's always been that way, in my experience, anyway; I qualify that slightly because it does seem to be creeping into quiz shows finally - because it was always there in the difference between quiz shows and game shows. On quiz shows, rewards have always been fairly meagre, whereas on game shows with Noel Edmonds or Michael Barrymore you can win lots of money just for knowing your name. It's even creeping into proper quiz shows nowadays!

BuzzOrielCox

Am I the only person who thinks it a bit much to see people winning large sums of money foe doing something at which they are not terribly good?

Kevin_Ashman

Well it can be irritating, certainly, but it's just a fact of life at the moment. If you allow it to get too irritating, then it can become a real thorn, I think - but the thing to do is just to accept it.

Grecian

Are either of you tempted to apply for a Classical greek Course with the Open University to add a University Challenge title to your achievements, and get lots of publicity?

Kevin_Ashman

*laughs* No! Not in my case. I think that would be a pretty desperate move; I wouldn't go on an Open University course just to get onto a particular quiz show, good though I think it is.

Trevor

Lance Haward is a member of our Mastermind club so I had better not say too much!

BuzzOrielCox

Do you prefer the old style of University Challenge or the new one?

Kevin_Ashman

I presume by style you mean Bamber Gascoigne vs. Jeremy Paxman in which case I prefer the old. There are other aspects...

BuzzOrielCox

Not only that, also the longer questions employed nowadays.

Kevin_Ashman

The questions used to be a bit more academically based, whereas now you get more popular culture questions. There's definitely more of that than there used to be.

BuzzOrielCox

And science.

Kevin_Ashman

In which case I definitely prefer the old. Some of today's questions do go to too much of a length, yes; I think we also found that with the Fifteen-to-one Millennium quiz yesterday - some of the questions were a bit long there.

BuzzOrielCox

Especially the one about Crippen.

Kevin_Ashman

*laughs* I was thinking about that one!

Trevor

That one was a nonsense...

Kevin_Ashman

We got the point of that one quite early on - it was just far too long! No need for it, too much extraneous detail.

Grecian

Given that Trevor's meisterwork is not yet published, which reference books would you both recommend for quiz revision?

Kevin_Ashman

Ooh! Well... mmm... Whittaker's almanac and Pears' encyclopedia. Once upon a time I would have recommended the Guinness Book of Answers, but that has gone downhill over the years. That's in terms of general reference books - I tend to use a range of more specialist ones as well.

Trevor

Whitaker's and Pears'.

BuzzOrielCox

Do you often get asked to appear at public meetings?

Kevin_Ashman

I wouldn't say often, but it does happen - I think "public meetings" might be putting it a bit strongly! I've been asked to speak to people like the Rotary Club, for instance, and I've been asked to present a few charity quizzes but public speaking isn't really my forte!

BuzzOrielCox

You're too modest!

Kevin_Ashman

That's very kind of you!

Grecian

What are your favourite quiz questions?

Kevin_Ashman

In terms of type, or in terms of a particular question?

Grecian

No, specific questions.

Kevin_Ashman

I can't say I've got a favourite because it does get a bit tedious wehen the same questions come up again and again. I couldn't honestly say that I've got a favourite.

MSO_Admin

Right, I think we'd all like to thank Kevin for his time.

Kevin_Ashman

We are of course looking to the brains of the Oxford Quiz Society to take us forward into the new millennium!

MSO_Admin

...which the Brain Trust has declared the Millennium of the Mind!

It has been a pleasure to have him here and we look forward to meeting him again in quizzes in the future! The session is not yet over, though! We have another hour in the company of Trevor Montague, who has interests in quizzing both on-screen and off.

Grecian

Trevor, how did you research the more arcane areas of your new book? I have heard it will be the definitive tool for quizzers.

Trevor

I am fortunate to be a member of the Mastermind Club and had considerable help by many of its members. I also belong to many clubs and societies which were a rich source of material; I researched the work to the n'th degree and made phone calls around the world to substantiate facts.

Grecian

When is the publication date? It all sounds very exciting!

Trevor

Well, it was to have been November 4th 1999 but, unfortunately, the project has turned out bigger than anyone realised. The new launch date is next August, to be out in time for the Millennium Mind Sports Olympiad.

BuzzOrielCox

We actually met briefly after the Quizmail National Shield last year, and you were talking then about a competition run over Teletext. Is this going to happen?

Trevor

No, I think you misunderstood. I used the service of Teletext as a means of entering the British Quiz Championship this year.

BuzzOrielCox

I see. When will it be possible to enter the next one - and how?

Trevor

Next year's competition will have many different ways of entering, including just turning up on the day.

BuzzOrielCox

Do you know when it is likely to be?

Trevor

As the competition is run as part of the Mind Sports Olympiad, I think it will be early August.

MSO_Admin

The dates for the next Mind Sports Olympiad are set as the 19th-28th August 2000, if that helps.

BuzzOrielCox

Thanks - I'd better get learning!

Trevor

Yeah - I think next year will have the biggest and best championship ever held in this country.

Mike

Do you see international quizzing happening - competing like in sport?

Trevor

Yes - in fact I believe the Mind Sports Organisation has such a project in mind.

Mike

Do you think it will bring better quizzing, unlike the University Challenge?

BuzzOrielCox

Do you think that the cultural barriers would make this impossible?

Trevor

Of course there has been the occasional international media quiz, viz. Mastermind International but I feel strongly that quizzing should be an international SPORT. The problem has been that there has never been an organising body. Hopefully with the set up of my National quiz organisation, things may change. Questions would have to be monitored very closely though, for obvious reasons.

Mike

Would you consider creating this genesis?

Trevor

Yes - in fact, I will help in any way I can to further quizzing generally as a sport.

BuzzOrielCox

What about the language barrier? I remember Going For Gold!

Trevor

Yes, Going for Gold used inferior British contestants to equalise things, to a certain extent. The continental contestants were of a very high standard but the language barrier made life difficult. The British are a very insular race, so language would be a problem.

Grecian

Perhaps an international quiz could be in Esperanto?

Trevor

Errr..... pass!

BuzzOrielCox

Do you see the Internet as a valuable quiz tool?

Trevor

Very much so. I personally have only been on-line for a year, but have found it invaluable.

BuzzOrielCox

For what purposes?

Trevor

Especially when I have been checking facts for the book.

BuzzOrielCox

Hopefully, in time, it will be less US dominated.

Trevor

Yeah, I find that irritating. Most of the search engines are US biased.

BuzzOrielCox

I'm finding it hard to get my site listed by them.

Trevor

I am designing my site at present so I hope I don't have that trouble!

Grecian

Trevor, do you play any other mind sports, and to what standard?

Trevor

I used to play bridge locally to a fair standard and chess to county standard as a schoolboy. Unfortunately, quizzing takes up so much spare time that it is not practical to get too involved with other sports.

Grecian

Why do you think quiz does not have as high a profile as other mind sports?

Trevor

Because there has never been a governing body and it is still in its infancy. I think the potential is there; after all, nearly every pub has a quiz night but chess and bridge have specialist clubs. Who would have thought a simple game like Trivial Pursuit would be so popular? The British are fascinated by quizzes; more and more the talk in the pubs are quiz biased. Even when our national sport of football is talked about in the pubs, it is usually in the form of "who scored this?" or "what was the result of that?".

Quizzing is here to stay, although I am concerned about the large prizes as in "Who wants to be a Millionaire?" demeaning lesser quizzes. Yeah, I personally think the top quiz players should be playing for such prizes - I think the general public would be fascinated to see the likes of Kevin Ashman performing against his peers for massive prizes; it would be like Garry Kasparov v Short or whoever.

BuzzOrielCox

Does Kevin Ashman have any peers? He is brilliant!

Grecian

He should _be_ a peer - Lord Ashman of Winchester!

Trevor

The rewards should be there and I will do my best to help things along if I possibly can. All top quiz players hold Kev in some reverence and he really is the most unassuming character and a great ambassador for quizzing. Put the fiver in the post, Kev!

BuzzOrielCox

Do you think that by centralising quizzes in this country you might reduce the scope? Will all the quizzes you intend to organize be academic?

Trevor

Well, that's a good question. I must admit that quizzing tends to be very regionally operated; we in the South London Quiz League hold an 'International' every year against the northern leagues. The problem is that all the different leagues have vested interests. My aim is to be a general overseer and bringer of knowledge to all quiz players, irrespective of area or standard. At the moment, all the independent leagues have all the top players - the brewery-run leagues tend to be downmarket, both in standard of question and contestant.

My aim is to cater for the whole spectrum of players and to indoctrinate league secretaries to see the advantages of centralisation. A well balanced general knowledge quiz should contain as many varying subjects as is humanly possible. Believe me - if you knew some of the league secretaries as I do then you would know what I mean! Friendly persuasion does not work; you have to dangle a carrot of some sort in front of them. There is a definite North-South divide at present and this is a real problem.

BuzzOrielCox

What forms the basis of this divide?

Trevor

The Northern players do not get to hear of many big competitions, as London tends to be the base for many TV companies. I have tried to remedy that by recruiting for television shows from Northern leagues.

Grecian

Respect to all those chatting tonight - but does the fact that only 5 people are online to chat to two of quizzing's biggest names indicate that quizzing will struggle to become more than a very small minority interest?

Trevor

No, I don't think so. It is Boxing Day, for one, but also there has always been a general apathy among the quiz fraternity.

BuzzOrielCox

Maybe quizzers tend to be Luddites?

Trevor

Very much so, most of my quiz playing friends are technophobes!

Grecian

Let's hope so, although I'm pleased because it's given BuzzOrielCox and myself more of an opportunity to ask ridiculous questions!

Trevor

No, I've enjoyed it very much, it's been great.

MSO_Admin

We've very much enjoyed having you here! It's been a very interesting and enjoyable chat and we look forward to finding out more about your ventures.

Trevor

Thanks for asking me - and cheers to all the callers!

BuzzOrielCox

Best of luck with the book and your other projects.

MSO_Admin

The MSO look forward to supporting you however we can! We also all eagerly look forward to a mammoth quiz championship at MSO IV - London, August 19-28, 2000.

Grecian

Let's all go for a "virtual pint"...

Trevor

I cannot - I'm in training for a very real sports competition, in Warwickshire, February 26th. I look forward to the next Olympiad in August!

Bye for now - I am signing off.

MSO_Admin

Keep looking at the MSO site for all the latest information!

Trevor

Sure!

MSO_Admin

Thanks very much for your time and your brain, Trevor!