06/18/00 12:56:34 (MSO_Admin) Hi Dan!
06/18/00 12:56:38 (MSO_Admin) Thanks for turning up
06/18/00 12:56:48 (Dan_Glimne) Hi! Dan Glimne is here, looking forward to the next two hours!
06/18/00 12:56:56 (MSO_Admin) Couple of technical problems at this end, but we're coping with them
06/18/00 12:57:02 (Dan_Glimne) Anyone else there so far?
06/18/00 12:57:16 (MSO_Admin) I've advertised the session quite heavily so I'm hopeful that lots of folk will attend.
06/18/00 12:57:29 (MSO_Admin) Most of the advertising has been on board game newsgroups and mailing lists
06/18/00 12:57:29 (Dan_Glimne) OK, then we're ready to roll...
06/18/00 12:57:42 (MSO_Admin) Good evening!
06/18/00 12:57:47 (TheMazeMan) Good afternoon.
06/18/00 12:57:53 (Dan_Glimne) And good evening from me too.
06/18/00 12:58:13 (TheMazeMan) It's only 3 pm here. I enjoy the confusion of times on the internet.
06/18/00 12:58:20 (Dan_Glimne) Good afternoon? Sounds like you are logging in from the Western hemisphere.
06/18/00 12:58:35 (TheMazeMan) Nice to meet you, Dan. Yes, Arkansas, U.S.
06/18/00 12:58:45 (TheMazeMan) But aren't you technically also in the Western Hemisphere?
06/18/00 12:58:51 (TheMazeMan) I can't remember where the dividing line is.
06/18/00 12:58:52 (Dan_Glimne) Hi! Me, I'm sitting outside Stockholm, in Sweden.
06/18/00 12:59:18 (Dan_Glimne) Technically, the dividing line is the zero meridian, running through Greenwich, London.
06/18/00 12:59:33 (TheMazeMan) I'm John Knoderer, by the way. I design puzzles, so when I heard you designed games, I knew I had to attend.
06/18/00 12:59:42 (MSO_Admin) I'm very slightly in the western hemisphere - a degree or so
06/18/00 13:00:02 (Dan_Glimne) And I'm about a thousand miles into the Eastern hemisphere.
06/18/00 13:00:18 (Dan_Glimne) Nice to "meet" you John!
06/18/00 13:00:39 (Dan_Glimne) Do you just design puzzles, or games too?
06/18/00 13:00:48 (TheMazeMan) Mainly puzzles.
06/18/00 13:01:00 (Dan_Glimne) What sort? Intellectual, mechanical, both?
06/18/00 13:01:11 (TheMazeMan) Occasionally, I'll make up a simple game as part of a puzzle, for example, but my games have never been the quality of the stuff I see in the stores.
06/18/00 13:01:20 (TheMazeMan) sort of a combination of different types,
06/18/00 13:01:32 (TheMazeMan) Word puzzles (I have a word search puzzle that contains 1,950 different words)
06/18/00 13:01:40 (Dan_Glimne) I've done the odd intellectual puzzle from time to time, but not any mechanical ones.
06/18/00 13:01:53 (TheMazeMan) Mazes, for example http://www.god.loves.someone.net/dan.html
06/18/00 13:02:14 (Dan_Glimne) What was that Net address?
06/18/00 13:02:28 (TheMazeMan) That is a maze that contains your first name.
06/18/00 13:02:38 (Dan_Glimne) Mazes are fun -- I have about a dozen books dealing with mazes.
06/18/00 13:02:41 (TheMazeMan) save it for later.
06/18/00 13:03:02 (TheMazeMan) I'm the webmaster for www.MAZES.com.
06/18/00 13:03:15 (Dan_Glimne) Did you know that Sweden has more mazes (from old times) than any other country?
06/18/00 13:03:26 (TheMazeMan) But in spite of my being puzzle oriented, I didn't do well in yesterday's World Puzzle Championship Qualifying test.
06/18/00 13:03:31 (Dan_Glimne) Have saved the web address, will check it later.
06/18/00 13:03:38 (TheMazeMan) No I didn't. Guess I'll have to put that on my agenda one of these Augusts.
06/18/00 13:04:00 (Dan_Glimne) I did not know abour
06/18/00 13:04:07 (TheMazeMan) I'm hoping that Chris will point me to some English mazes when I come to London to collect the two pence that he owes me.
06/18/00 13:04:25 (Dan_Glimne) ... I did not know about the World Puzzle Championship -- tell me more abou it!
06/18/00 13:04:57 (TheMazeMan) The qualifying test was yesterday. The round yesterday was to pick one or members of the national teams for the US, UK, and a few other countries.
06/18/00 13:05:03 (TheMazeMan) It was fun for people from other countries.
06/18/00 13:05:16 (TheMazeMan) They presented 22 puzzles, gave you 2.5 hours to solve as many as you wished to solve.
06/18/00 13:05:24 (MSO_Admin) You can find more information on the World Puzzle Championship at www.worldpuzzle.org, I think
06/18/00 13:05:32 (Dan_Glimne) Interesting!
06/18/00 13:05:36 (TheMazeMan) I got 65 points but I'm certain Chris beat my score.
06/18/00 13:05:41 (MSO_Admin) I'm not :-)
06/18/00 13:06:04 (Dan_Glimne) The solving was done via the Internet?
06/18/00 13:06:07 (TheMazeMan) In the U.S., the fourth member of the U.S. Team will be the one person who gets the BEST score on this test.
06/18/00 13:06:14 (TheMazeMan) We submitted our answers by filling in a web page.
06/18/00 13:06:48 (Dan_Glimne) Interesting! Will check www.worldpuzzle.org later
06/18/00 13:06:51 (TheMazeMan) But all solving was sitting at table, etc.
06/18/00 13:07:10 (TheMazeMan) I spread out manipulatives at the table in advance so I could move things around.
06/18/00 13:07:30 (Dan_Glimne) How many contestants attended, total? Countries?
06/18/00 13:07:43 (TheMazeMan) By the way, if Chris didn't tell you, today is "Father's Day" in the U.S., so that will affect attendance from over here.
06/18/00 13:07:57 (MSO_Admin) It's Father's Day owrldwide, I think
06/18/00 13:07:57 (TheMazeMan) I don't know, but I hope they tell us when they tell us how we do later this week.
06/18/00 13:08:20 (TheMazeMan) I wasnt sure of that part. I think I remember learning it started over here.
06/18/00 13:08:28 (Dan_Glimne) Hmmm. In Sweden, Father's Day this year is 12 Nov -- always second Sunday in November
06/18/00 13:08:39 (TheMazeMan) Hallmark's excuse to make people buy greeting cards.
06/18/00 13:08:55 (Dan_Glimne) Well, here too --- just a different card company.
06/18/00 13:09:06 (TheMazeMan) So, tell me about some of your games, have I seen any of them?
06/18/00 13:09:11 (MSO_Admin) Good evening!
06/18/00 13:09:19 (Dan_Glimne) Welcome! Where (country?) are you logging in from?
06/18/00 13:09:31 (ybbol) good evening from Finland
06/18/00 13:09:50 (Dan_Glimne) My games -- my best-known ones are Svea Rike, Sky Runner and perhaps one-dimensional chess.
06/18/00 13:10:09 (MSO_Admin) In this country you're probably best known for DungeonQuest.
06/18/00 13:10:12 (Dan_Glimne) Finland -- welcome!
06/18/00 13:10:15 (TheMazeMan) One dimensional? Sounds intriguing.
06/18/00 13:10:24 (TheMazeMan) I've heard of DungeonQuest.
06/18/00 13:10:29 (ybbol) I have seen one-dimensional chess problems
06/18/00 13:10:34 (Dan_Glimne) DungeonQuest -- yeah, that's right, although it was over ten years ago.
06/18/00 13:10:54 (Dan_Glimne) There are three or four versions of one-dimensional chess, I believe.
06/18/00 13:10:55 (MSO_Admin) So what does the name of the game "Svea Rike" actually mean?
06/18/00 13:11:29 (Dan_Glimne) "Svea Rike" (old word) literally means "the realm of the svears"
06/18/00 13:11:43 (TheMazeMan) and what is a svear?
06/18/00 13:11:54 (Dan_Glimne) Svear is the name for the people who lived in middle Sweden (Stockholm area)
06/18/00 13:11:55 (TheMazeMan) I think of "svear word"
06/18/00 13:12:01 (TheMazeMan) okay.
06/18/00 13:12:16 (Dan_Glimne) "Svear" is a plural word, simply.
06/18/00 13:12:18 (MSO_Admin) http://www.chessvariants.com/shape.dir/onedim.html
06/18/00 13:12:29 (MSO_Admin) has details of all the one-dimensional chess games that exist.
06/18/00 13:12:32 (Dan_Glimne) Is my particular OD Chess version there?
06/18/00 13:13:00 (MSO_Admin) Yes, it is
06/18/00 13:13:05 (Dan_Glimne) My OD chess version is in David Pritchard's Encyclopedia of chess variants, I know that.
06/18/00 13:13:32 (Dan_Glimne) Have to check that web page -- some of my games turn up here and there...
06/18/00 13:13:38 (MSO_Admin) The setup is White King, Queen, Rook, Bishop, Bishop, Knight, Pawn, four empty squares, Black Pawn, Knight, Bishop, Bishop, Rook, Queen, King.
06/18/00 13:13:54 (MSO_Admin) The King moves one or two squares, but moving two it may not jump over a piece. A Rook moves as usual. A Bishop moves an even number of squares (i.e., only on squares of his own color), and jumps over squares of the other color, e.g., when white starts the game with moving his pawn, he can move the next turn the bishop that is most towards the black pieces. The Queen has the combined moves of bishop and rook. A kNight moves two or three squares, and may jump
06/18/00 13:14:12 (MSO_Admin) Castling is allowed under the same restrictions as castling in usual chess.
06/18/00 13:14:20 (MSO_Admin) The inventor thinks that white can force a win.
06/18/00 13:14:21 (Dan_Glimne) Correct -- and my single home-made version of the game was coincidentally set up again last week, and is on one of my shelves.
06/18/00 13:14:53 (Dan_Glimne) I merely have a "sneaky feeling" that white can force a win, but as yet unproved.
06/18/00 13:15:09 (MSO_Admin) At some point I'm going to see if Zillions of Games can find a win for one or the other
06/18/00 13:15:24 (Dan_Glimne) Haven't played that particular chess invention of mine for about a decade!
06/18/00 13:15:25 (MSO_Admin) It shouldn't be too hard to program in Zillions.
06/18/00 13:15:42 (Dan_Glimne) That would be interesting!
06/18/00 13:16:13 (Dan_Glimne) My OD chess was invented as an experiment, after my first game of 3D chess.
06/18/00 13:16:34 (Dan_Glimne) I wanted to see if it was possible to go "down", dimension-wise, instead of up.
06/18/00 13:16:52 (ybbol) I wonder if there is a 4-dimensional chess?
06/18/00 13:16:58 (Dan_Glimne) Oh yeah!
06/18/00 13:17:16 (ybbol) that would be understood by professors of mathematics only
06/18/00 13:17:40 (MSO_Admin) I think I saw chess on a 4x4x4x4 board recently
06/18/00 13:17:50 (MSO_Admin) but I can't find it on chessvariants off-hand
06/18/00 13:18:00 (Dan_Glimne) Where? A commercial variant? I collect chess games.
06/18/00 13:18:11 (MSO_Admin) A web page with the rules of the games alone
06/18/00 13:18:13 (ybbol) is that a four-dimensional board? what did it look like?
06/18/00 13:18:38 (Dan_Glimne) Probably several 3D games side by side, with moves permitted between arrays.
06/18/00 13:19:08 (MSO_Admin) http://www.chessvariants.com/large.dir/contest/chesseract.html
06/18/00 13:19:43 (Dan_Glimne) Will check that one!
06/18/00 13:19:45 (MSO_Admin) Very much what you suggest, Dan
06/18/00 13:19:59 (MSO_Admin) It looks like a 4x4 arrangement of 4x4 boards
06/18/00 13:20:11 (MSO_Admin) and pieces can move either on the same board or from board to board
06/18/00 13:20:52 (Dan_Glimne) It has been done before -- I seem to recall it. Will check one of my books...
06/18/00 13:21:53 (davidbod) ?
06/18/00 13:21:55 (MSO_Admin) I look forward to someone inventing five-dimensional chess, just because they can!
06/18/00 13:22:06 (MSO_Admin) We're being very free-form with questions and answers at the moment;
06/18/00 13:22:10 (TheMazeMan) but I don't think I'd want to play it.
06/18/00 13:22:11 (MSO_Admin) please go ahead with your question, David
06/18/00 13:22:27 (Dan_Glimne) Page 18 in "A Guide To Fairy Chess" by Anthony Dickins has it. Published in 1971 and a rarity...
06/18/00 13:22:45 (davidbod) The Internet is all very well, but what about the impact of wireless technologies on game components - such as Bluetooth?
06/18/00 13:23:15 (Dan_Glimne) Games are games, in principle -- it is just that new technologies make other forms possible.
06/18/00 13:23:46 (Dan_Glimne) I believe that future technical developments will revolutionize board games.
06/18/00 13:24:03 (Dan_Glimne) Think of squares with built-in voice chips, for example.
06/18/00 13:24:45 (MSO_Admin) There's a program which will let you navigate around four-plus-dimensional mazes called "Frood Grid"
06/18/00 13:24:46 (MSO_Admin) http://members.tripod.com/~l4795/frood
06/18/00 13:26:02 (Dan_Glimne) A lot of web page addresses I am collecting this evening...
06/18/00 13:26:02 (TheMazeMan) In the mid-eighties, I woke up from a dream, knowing how to write a computer program to create four dimensional mazes. That same day, I used that method to do my 3D version.
06/18/00 13:26:05 (MSO_Admin) Will we ever get computer games which permit as rich social interactions as board games do?
06/18/00 13:26:17 (ybbol) that technology is already being misused for cheating
06/18/00 13:26:23 * MSO_Admin will be back in a moment
06/18/00 13:26:54 (Dan_Glimne) Once virtual reality becomes better, I believe that we can interact in "worlds" that will be hard to tell from the real thing...
06/18/00 13:27:16 (Dan_Glimne) ... Which brings me to the move "Matrix". Seen it?
06/18/00 13:27:49 (Dan_Glimne) Anyway, back to games, or inventing, or the MSO, or all three. Questions, anyone?
06/18/00 13:28:41 (MSO_Admin) What are you working on at the moment?
06/18/00 13:28:56 (Dan_Glimne) In pure games inventing?
06/18/00 13:29:01 (TheMazeMan) Will you be at the MSO4, so we can see some of your things?
06/18/00 13:29:05 (MSO_Admin) Yes indeed.
06/18/00 13:29:20 (MSO_Admin) Dan is Chief Arbiter at the MSO, so I expect he will be there, yes :-)
06/18/00 13:29:26 (TheMazeMan) Fantastic, I look forward to meeting you. (reminder to self, bring money)
06/18/00 13:29:39 (Dan_Glimne) Have done three new card games lately, since I've just finished a book on card games. (With ordinary playing cards, that is.)
06/18/00 13:30:02 (Dan_Glimne) Yes, I will be at the MSO4 -- and look forward to seeing you!
06/18/00 13:30:12 (MSO_Admin) That sounds interesting. Will it be published in English, or Swedish only?
06/18/00 13:30:38 (Dan_Glimne) In Swedish, at least fo a start -- a Swedish publishing house asked me to do it.
06/18/00 13:30:57 (Dan_Glimne) Playing cards are by the way a wonderful medium fo games.
06/18/00 13:31:05 (MSO_Admin) Please would you tell us about some of the new playing card games that you have invented?
06/18/00 13:31:33 (Dan_Glimne) I am also involved in the coming casinos in Sweden -- they recently changed the law to permit casinos being built.
06/18/00 13:32:05 (MSO_Admin) Excellent!
06/18/00 13:32:16 (Dan_Glimne) One of the card games is a political satire -- two players, one who wants to raise the taxes, the other wants to lower them.
06/18/00 13:32:35 (Dan_Glimne) The players represent two well-known political parties here.
06/18/00 13:33:09 (Dan_Glimne) The tax situation is shown via the club cards, from A (counting 1) to 9.
06/18/00 13:33:30 (Dan_Glimne) A= 10%% taxes, 2 = 20%% taxes, 3 = 30%% taxes, etc.
06/18/00 13:33:56 (Dan_Glimne) At the start, the tax level is 50%% (shown by five of clubs).
06/18/00 13:34:21 (Dan_Glimne) The players chooses cards to play against each other in a sort of semi-trick-taking style.
06/18/00 13:35:06 (Dan_Glimne) Some of the cards are given special functions. Player A wins if the tax level goes up to 90%%, player B if it goes down to 10%%.
06/18/00 13:35:29 (MSO_Admin) Sounds very interesting.
06/18/00 13:35:37 (MSO_Admin) There aren't many thematic playing card games out there.
06/18/00 13:35:38 (Dan_Glimne) Or, at the end of the game, if the tax level is higher or lower than 50%%, the corresponding player wins.
06/18/00 13:35:58 (Dan_Glimne) Actually, you can give any theme at all to a card game.
06/18/00 13:36:31 (MSO_Admin) Most playing card games tend to be played themeless and for score alone, though...?
06/18/00 13:36:41 (Dan_Glimne) As long as the players agree that, let's say, hearts cards represent this and spades that, you have a thematic card game.
06/18/00 13:36:56 (Dan_Glimne) Yes, most card games are theme-less ones.
06/18/00 13:37:09 (Dan_Glimne) That's why it is fun to invent thematic card games!
06/18/00 13:37:19 (MSO_Admin) I tend to enjoy themed games more than themeless ones so I wholly agree :-)
06/18/00 13:37:37 (MSO_Admin) You are known as one of Europe's foremost experts on poker.
06/18/00 13:37:57 (MSO_Admin) I perceive that poker is becoming far more mainstream and higher in the public conscience than ever before.
06/18/00 13:38:13 (Dan_Glimne) I wouldn't know about that -- though I have written a thick book on the subject, and won tournaments in Las Vegas...
06/18/00 13:38:15 (MSO_Admin) Ladbrokes' in the UK have made noises about promoting
06/18/00 13:38:33 (MSO_Admin) a million-pound hold'em tournament in the style of Binnion's Horseshoe World Series of Poker.
06/18/00 13:38:40 (Dan_Glimne) Yes, poker has become very much a socially acceptable game in the past decade.
06/18/00 13:39:23 (Dan_Glimne) Also, the unique thing about poker is that it is not a card game in the strict sense, but a game about moneymanagement.
06/18/00 13:39:30 (MSO_Admin) How best, would you say, that people who don't like playing games for money can experience poker's unique thrills?
06/18/00 13:40:09 (Dan_Glimne) You can't. The unique thing about poker IS that it is being played for, and by, something of value.
06/18/00 13:40:42 (MSO_Admin) What's the lowest stake that poker is worth playing for?
06/18/00 13:40:47 (Dan_Glimne) In order for losses and wins to be "felt", they must MEAN something to you as a person, not just being an abstract points score.
06/18/00 13:41:01 (MSO_Admin) Or can you suggest any non-monetary stakes that might be worth playing for?
06/18/00 13:41:27 (Dan_Glimne) Lowest? I'd rather say that the suitable level of stakes is such that a loss starts to become irritating, at least...
06/18/00 13:41:52 (Dan_Glimne) The only acceptable non-monetary stakes in poker are sex. There, I've said it...
06/18/00 13:42:07 (MSO_Admin) !!
06/18/00 13:42:16 (MSO_Admin) Can we quote you on that?
06/18/00 13:42:22 (Dan_Glimne) Yes, you can...
06/18/00 13:42:27 (MSO_Admin) That will make a lovely headline!
06/18/00 13:42:43 (MSO_Admin) "The only acceptable non-monetary stakes in poker are sex" - Dan Glimne. Read more!
06/18/00 13:42:53 (Dan_Glimne) ... Which brings me to quote the writer Alan Williams: "Sex is OK, but poker lasts longer..."
06/18/00 13:43:17 (Dan_Glimne) Hi, GR! From whichcountry?
06/18/00 13:43:22 (MSO_Admin) It's not often that we start to discuss sexual politics in MSO star guest interview chat sessions!"
06/18/00 13:43:33 (GR) Originally UK...now resding in the US with my wife
06/18/00 13:43:45 (Dan_Glimne) Well, sex and poker is a pretty apolitical subject...
06/18/00 13:43:46 (ybbol) I don't play poker but I enjoy a poker variant without stakes
06/18/00 13:43:49 (GR) hi chris, hi John, hi Dan
06/18/00 13:44:00 (GR) pleased to meet you yobbol
06/18/00 13:44:08 (TheMazeMan) Hi, Gareth.
06/18/00 13:44:23 (MSO_Admin) You are also associated with The Game Designer Association .
06/18/00 13:44:28 (Dan_Glimne) Does everyone know each other by initials out there?
06/18/00 13:44:34 (TheMazeMan) grin
06/18/00 13:44:43 (MSO_Admin) What are you doing for that these days?
06/18/00 13:44:43 (GR) ((smiles))
06/18/00 13:45:03 (GR) Im MSO too Dan
06/18/00 13:45:19 (Dan_Glimne) There is a large and quite professionally-run German organisation for games inventors, the SAZ.
06/18/00 13:45:38 (Dan_Glimne) Meaning the Spiele-Autoren Zunft, the Games Inventors' Guild.
06/18/00 13:46:37 (TheMazeMan) It sounds like an interesting association. I wish I were nearer things like that, but I'm way off in the boondocks.
06/18/00 13:46:54 (Dan_Glimne) Arkansas, that's Clinton's homestate...
06/18/00 13:47:06 (MSO_Admin) You are listed as an Advisory Councillor in the SAZ. I'm curious to know what the biggest issues of the day within it are!
06/18/00 13:47:12 (TheMazeMan) Yes, my parents met him when he was still governor here.
06/18/00 13:47:28 (TheMazeMan) He remembers Dad talking his ear off at one meeting.
06/18/00 13:48:04 (Dan_Glimne) The biggest issues of the day, or rather issue, is to hammer out a sort of "basic" contract with the games publishing companies.
06/18/00 13:48:36 (Dan_Glimne) This contract would guarantee certain rights, creation-wise, not just the money issue.
06/18/00 13:49:30 (Dan_Glimne) In the US or to some extent the UK, games inventors are not seen as true creators, like writers and composers.
06/18/00 13:49:54 (Dan_Glimne) In Continental, Europe, however, this has been the case now for some two decades.
06/18/00 13:50:25 (MSO_Admin) Was there much difference between the way your games are treated when you were working for AB Alga than when you are working now as a freelancer?
06/18/00 13:50:28 (Dan_Glimne) I mean, do you go into the bookstore to get a Stephen King book, or a Doubleday book?
06/18/00 13:51:18 (Dan_Glimne) When I was at Alga, any games inventions I did (except small stuff like paper-and-pencil games and card games) was the property of Alga.
06/18/00 13:51:45 (Dan_Glimne) These days, however, I am in a way a "business man" like a writer for example.
06/18/00 13:52:16 (Dan_Glimne) It means I contact (or am contacted by, in some cases) games companies, and try to sell them my games -- or books.
06/18/00 13:52:45 (MSO_Admin) So what can be done to increase the public perception of games inventors throughout the English speaking world?
06/18/00 13:53:13 (Dan_Glimne) I have been a freelancer now since 1989, and let me tell you, it means having a roller-coaster economy...
06/18/00 13:53:44 (Dan_Glimne) The public perception of games? Number one, start treating them like the cultural artifacts they are.
06/18/00 13:54:49 (Dan_Glimne) Is it only in the last few decades that acheologists and other people have realized that games say just as much about their culture as books, or other artefacts.
06/18/00 13:55:19 (Dan_Glimne) A board game does not exist in a vacuum -- it reflects social values, morality, religion...
06/18/00 13:55:37 (Dan_Glimne) In short, the society in which it was created.
06/18/00 13:56:19 (MSO_Admin) Which games deisgners around the world today do you admire most?
06/18/00 13:56:40 (Dan_Glimne) Reiner Knizia is the first name that springs to mind...
06/18/00 13:57:09 (Dan_Glimne) But there are many other good ones -- David Parlett, Michael Gray, Alan Moon, Dirk Henn...
06/18/00 13:57:38 (Dan_Glimne) ... Alex Randolph, Sid Sackson -- the real veterans and heroes...
06/18/00 13:58:19 (Dan_Glimne) Trouble is, so few people (outside Germany, where games ARE a big thing) know those names.
06/18/00 13:59:11 (MSO_Admin) Can there be another way to imbue a game with permanent out-of-game effects that will be felt after the game has been completed other than playing for stakes?
06/18/00 13:59:17 (Dan_Glimne) Quick quiz: Mordechai Meirovitz, Alfred Butts, Paul Toyne... Which games?
06/18/00 13:59:38 (MSO_Admin) Butts invented Scrabble
06/18/00 13:59:47 (Dan_Glimne) Out-of-game effects? Depends on the individual, I guess.
06/18/00 14:00:05 (Dan_Glimne) Scrabble and Butts, right. How about Merle Robbins?
06/18/00 14:00:51 (Dan_Glimne) Out-of-game effects can of course include the lingering intellectual satisfaction of having done the absolutely right thing!
06/18/00 14:01:21 (MSO_Admin) I'll have to confess that I've just looked up "Merle Robbins" in a search engine and found no games coming up as results.
06/18/00 14:01:27 (Dan_Glimne) Answers: Meirovitz -- Mastermind, Toyne -- Balderdash, Robbins -- UNO.
06/18/00 14:01:29 (ybbol) Are there games that do not have winners or loosers but require cooperation?
06/18/00 14:01:54 (Dan_Glimne) Yes, when you play as a team against the system. Boring for most people.
06/18/00 14:02:19 (MSO_Admin) All famous games indeed. I should certainly have remembered the Mastermind inventor at the very least.
06/18/00 14:02:20 (ybbol) which game is that?
06/18/00 14:02:24 (Dan_Glimne) Who would like to watch the Olympics if people did not compete against each other?
06/18/00 14:02:46 (Dan_Glimne) Are you kidding... You do not know the game Mastermind??
06/18/00 14:03:08 (MSO_Admin) I'm familiar with the game, but not the game's inventor. (shame)
06/18/00 14:03:25 (ybbol) 'Games' may have other functions that measuring skills
06/18/00 14:03:41 (Dan_Glimne) See? There are scores of famous games, but they are so rarely connected to their inventors.
06/18/00 14:04:04 (Dan_Glimne) Anyone can list composers, artists and writers, but try to list ten games inventors...
06/18/00 14:04:12 (MSO_Admin) Mordechai Meirovitz is a fairly distinctive sort of name, too.
06/18/00 14:04:42 (Dan_Glimne) Israeli electrical engineer who hit the jackpot with his invention in the early 1970's.
06/18/00 14:04:54 (ybbol) How do you define a game?
06/18/00 14:05:22 (Dan_Glimne) Comment re ybbol's query: All games measure some sort of skill -- intellectual, manual...
06/18/00 14:05:58 (Dan_Glimne) Defining a game? Far greater minds than mine have been stumped by that one...
06/18/00 14:06:02 (GR) Does anyone know Alfred Butss?
06/18/00 14:06:07 (GR) Alfred Butts
06/18/00 14:06:14 (ybbol) But are there games which do convert the measures to put players in order?
06/18/00 14:06:22 (Dan_Glimne) My own favourite: A process where people start of equal and wind up unequal.
06/18/00 14:06:24 (ybbol) which do not convert
06/18/00 14:06:44 (MSO_Admin) Yes, we've identified Butts as the Scrabble inventor.
06/18/00 14:06:49 (GR) ok..good
06/18/00 14:07:15 (Dan_Glimne) Some sort of order is usually the rule at the end of a game -- the smartest, or fastest, or luckiest...
06/18/00 14:07:23 (ybbol) How does one know if something one invents is a game or something else=
06/18/00 14:07:50 (Dan_Glimne) If it produces either a winner or a loser, it is usually a game...
06/18/00 14:08:01 (ybbol) I am especially interested in finding a 'game' which does not look for winners
06/18/00 14:08:20 (ybbol) do I have to invent one? :)
06/18/00 14:08:47 (Dan_Glimne) "The other kind" is "result-negative" games, where the object is to appoint a loser (Old Maid, for example).
06/18/00 14:09:07 (Dan_Glimne) Welcome back,MazeMan.
06/18/00 14:09:16 (MSO_Admin) Or your invention "Skitgubbe", designed to find who should pay for the next round of drinks!
06/18/00 14:09:31 (Dan_Glimne) Regrettably, NOT my invention!
06/18/00 14:09:43 (MSO_Admin) Sorry - my confusion.
06/18/00 14:09:55 (Dan_Glimne) Skitgubbe is a traditional three-handed card game, arguably the most common three-hander in Sweden.
06/18/00 14:10:24 (Dan_Glimne) Though actually it is probably of Finnish origin, where it is known as Myllymatti.
06/18/00 14:10:48 (Dan_Glimne) Though as for drinks game, I have invented Beer Square.
06/18/00 14:11:22 (MSO_Admin) Would you rather play your one of your favourite games with people who you don't know or a game you don't particularly care for with your regular gaming group?
06/18/00 14:12:25 (Dan_Glimne) The best satisfaction comes from playing a game with friends, and one which everyone knows VERY well and likes. Nothing like hold'em or seven stud with your regular poker buddies...
06/18/00 14:13:16 (Dan_Glimne) Speaking of the MSO4, I hear that it is definitely on now, after some initial trouble concerning the sponsors.
06/18/00 14:13:24 (MSO_Admin) Absolutely!
06/18/00 14:13:31 (Dan_Glimne) GREAT!
06/18/00 14:13:33 (MSO_Admin) We're very pleased to confirm it!
06/18/00 14:13:50 (MSO_Admin) We're still looking for more sponsors, though.
06/18/00 14:14:21 (Dan_Glimne) Who is the main sponsor this year? Or more like several medium-sized ones?
06/18/00 14:14:39 (MSO_Admin) I think it's more like the latter
06/18/00 14:14:48 (MSO_Admin) but am not sure whether I can release their details or not yet.
06/18/00 14:14:48 (TheMazeMan) If it's needed, I'll donate one of those two pence you owe me to the cause.
06/18/00 14:14:55 (MSO_Admin) Thanks
06/18/00 14:15:23 (Dan_Glimne) Which games are new for this year's MSO?
06/18/00 14:15:25 (MSO_Admin) Have you ever invented any primarily physical games, or do you focus exclusively on mind sports?
06/18/00 14:15:51 (MSO_Admin) I believe Settlers of Catan board game, Acquire and Renju... possibly others.
06/18/00 14:16:03 (MSO_Admin) Which games would you like to see added to the MSO?
06/18/00 14:16:05 (Dan_Glimne) I can't offhand think of any physical game inventions I have done, except variants of croquet and that sort of stuff...
06/18/00 14:16:33 (Dan_Glimne) Renju is a very welcome addition, a classical mind game.
06/18/00 14:17:43 (Dan_Glimne) Games added to the MSO? I'll pass it on to the audience, but Monopoly comes to mind. It is not to be under-estimated, especially as a negotiating-game...
06/18/00 14:18:36 (Dan_Glimne) ... And of course I'd like to see the British powers-that-be change their minds and allow cash prizes in the MSO poker tournaments!
06/18/00 14:18:57 (MSO_Admin) Perhaps it might be more practical to come to some agreements with an existing casino
06/18/00 14:19:14 (Dan_Glimne) If that would possible, certainly.
06/18/00 14:19:23 (MSO_Admin) and hold MSO-branded poker tournaments with prizes there.
06/18/00 14:19:29 (Dan_Glimne) But would the authorities allow "off-pemises" gambling?'
06/18/00 14:19:54 (Dan_Glimne) Not that poker is gambling in the long run, mind you, it is a supreme test of skill and mind over cards...
06/18/00 14:19:55 (MSO_Admin) I doubt it - potential entrants would have to register as casino members as normal.
06/18/00 14:20:32 (MSO_Admin) Please tell us a little more about how the casinos in Sweden will be organising poker tournaments and cash games.
06/18/00 14:20:54 (Dan_Glimne) If so, that should be worth looking into. Perhaps the Victoria or Palm Beach would throw in a little cash incentive too as sponsors...
06/18/00 14:21:49 (Dan_Glimne) Swedish casinos: As yet poker has not been confirmed, but my inside info tells me that the Stockholm casino (when it opens in late 2001 or early 2002) will have a poker room.
06/18/00 14:22:25 (Dan_Glimne) This will be as an experiment, and if enough people come to play it will of course be made into a permanent fixture.
06/18/00 14:22:45 (MSO_Admin) So will the casino be based around the traditional casino pursuits: craps, Blackjack, roulette, fruit machines and so on/
06/18/00 14:23:06 (Dan_Glimne) Otherwise, it will be a regular card room -- cash games most evenings, weekend tournaments, and occasionally large tournaments.
06/18/00 14:23:48 (Dan_Glimne) Yeah, the mainstay of the Swedish casinos will be the usual fare -- BJ, punto banco, sic bo, roulette, slots.
06/18/00 14:23:58 (MSO_Admin) Why don't casinos spend more time devising new gambling games that are as entertaining to play as most modern board games and mind sports?
06/18/00 14:24:11 (MSO_Admin) Have you ever spent time devising such gambling games at all?
06/18/00 14:24:24 (Dan_Glimne) No craps, though, just sic bo. Craps is just about completely unknown in Sweden.
06/18/00 14:24:56 * MSO_Admin will dig through his copy of Knizia's "Dice Games Properly Explained" for details of sic bo
06/18/00 14:25:09 (Dan_Glimne) Any game can be played for money, but no -- I haven't spent time trying to come up with a "real gambling game".
06/18/00 14:25:37 (Dan_Glimne) Sic bo -- three dice are rolled, and the customers can bet beforehand on a variety of outcomes.
06/18/00 14:26:18 (Dan_Glimne) Such as the total, a double appearing, a specified triplet, or a particular combination appearing like 5-2, and so on.
06/18/00 14:26:34 (Dan_Glimne) Altogether, there are about 50 possible wagers on the sic bo table.
06/18/00 14:27:04 (Dan_Glimne) The casino's advantage in sic bo varies widely, from less than 3%% to over 30%%...
06/18/00 14:27:29 (MSO_Admin) http://www.casinorama.com/sicbo.html
06/18/00 14:27:33 (Dan_Glimne) Smart gambling ALWAYS means finding the games and wagers with the lowest house advantages, and betting.
06/18/00 14:27:35 (MSO_Admin) has a list of bets and payoffs
06/18/00 14:28:50 (Dan_Glimne) It is a pretty mindless betting game. I much prefer the action of BJ, or possibly punto banco in which the house advantage is not much over 1%%.
06/18/00 14:29:27 (Dan_Glimne) Also, in BJ you get to handle the cards. In sic bo, the dealer rolls the dice inside a sealed container.
06/18/00 14:29:34 (MSO_Admin) Have decisions been taken on what sort of BJ games will be offered in Stockholm's casino?
06/18/00 14:29:57 (Dan_Glimne) The physical attraction of handling games equipment is actually a part of the attraction of playing.
06/18/00 14:31:02 (Dan_Glimne) It will be pretty ordinary internatíonal BJ, as four doubling down and splitting -- not the liberal Strip Rules like in Las Vegas, unfortunately, but those result from competition in a free market...
06/18/00 14:31:07 (MSO_Admin) Insurance, doubling down, splitting pairs, house action on 16s etc.
06/18/00 14:31:52 (Dan_Glimne) I haven't seen all the details yet, but when the first Swedish casino (since 1912!!) opens around Dec 1st, 2000, it will all be decided.
06/18/00 14:32:13 (TheMazeMan) Hello, Petarius.
06/18/00 14:32:19 (Petarius) hi
06/18/00 14:32:19 (Dan_Glimne) BJ is one of those casino games where knowledge of tactics pays off.
06/18/00 14:32:29 (Dan_Glimne) Hi, Petarius.
06/18/00 14:32:38 (Petarius) hi
06/18/00 14:32:51 (Dan_Glimne) Where are you logging in from? Which country?
06/18/00 14:32:59 (Petarius) US
06/18/00 14:33:05 (Petarius) you?
06/18/00 14:33:19 (Dan_Glimne) Me, I'm sitting outside Stockholm in Sweden.
06/18/00 14:33:34 (Petarius) cool
06/18/00 14:34:11 (Mouse) hi everyone
06/18/00 14:34:12 (Dan_Glimne) Well, what's next? AQny more questions on games in general? What do you prefer playing, all you chat members out there?
06/18/00 14:34:26 (Petarius) I like RPG's
06/18/00 14:34:29 (Mouse) Backgammon is my game
06/18/00 14:34:31 (MSO_Admin) So how often do you get to play games; when you do, do you play poker, do you playtest your own designs or do you get to sample other new games invented?
06/18/00 14:34:32 (GR) Backgammon and scrabble are my games
06/18/00 14:34:42 (TheMazeMan) What advice can you give people hoping to become game designers.
06/18/00 14:35:23 (ybbol) chess
06/18/00 14:35:33 (Dan_Glimne) Advice? Work hard, be creative, blabla... Sorry if I sound callous, but the hardest thing is to actually get games companies to even look at your inventions.
06/18/00 14:35:59 (Petarius) what do you mean by inventions? do you mean story ideas?
06/18/00 14:36:12 (GR) I think there are too many games based on TV shows , gameshows and films
06/18/00 14:36:14 (ybbol) You can publish a new game in the internet
06/18/00 14:36:37 (Dan_Glimne) No -- inventions are game mechanisms, the "math + decisions" driving the game along.
06/18/00 14:37:04 (Dan_Glimne) Yes, there are a lot of middling-to-poor quality games based on TV stuff.
06/18/00 14:37:05 (Petarius) oh
06/18/00 14:37:08 (GR) ie. the boardgame came after the TV version and 9 times out of ten they are worse in board fromat..take "The Freinds" game or the "WWTBAM" game
06/18/00 14:37:42 (Dan_Glimne) Publishing new games on the Internet is unfortunately not (as yet) a way to make money.
06/18/00 14:37:47 (Petarius) I guess i'm more interested int writing up the stories and characer design, but if I were to make a game based on my ideas I'd want to be in the directors chair
06/18/00 14:37:55 (Dan_Glimne) Though it might be intellectually satisfying.
06/18/00 14:38:45 (Dan_Glimne) When you say stories and character design, you are already into highly thematic games like role-playing games.
06/18/00 14:38:55 (Petarius) yeah
06/18/00 14:38:59 (Petarius) I like those the best
06/18/00 14:39:07 (GR) well....the orginal MUDs are the basis of many of todays RPGs....did any of the MUD creators get dredit or are the RPGs invented by totally different people?
06/18/00 14:39:31 (Dan_Glimne) Most games exist at a lower level of "thematics", and then the mechanism, or combination of mechanisms, driving the game becomes much more important.
06/18/00 14:39:34 (MSO_Admin) Richard Bartle, I think, created the original MUD
06/18/00 14:40:28 (GR) I remember playing a game called "adventure" on an old DEC20 which was near enough the original MUD (not MUD cos it wasnt mulitplayer tho). Think it came out very soon after Maze's Star Trek
06/18/00 14:40:40 (Dan_Glimne) RPG games are a form of theatre -- what you do is that you add winning and losing, in the wide sense.
06/18/00 14:41:00 (Petarius) yeah
06/18/00 14:41:13 (Petarius) I sort of think of it like an interactive story to some degree
06/18/00 14:41:17 (GR) the game "adventure" was very pure.......text only with about ten commands
06/18/00 14:41:21 (Dan_Glimne) RPG games were invented around 1970, it is generally considered.
06/18/00 14:42:07 (Dan_Glimne) Think of RPG games another fifty years down the line, when you put a helmet on your head and enter some stunning virtual reality world...
06/18/00 14:42:18 (Petarius) that will be cool
06/18/00 14:42:48 (Petarius) But to make the genre more interesting a lot of designers are looking into the multiplayer aspects, such as online RPGs, I think that will lead us to a new direction
06/18/00 14:42:57 (ybbol) that will be in ten years
06/18/00 14:43:11 (Dan_Glimne) I think that half a century from now, there will be (illegal) games that you actually risk your life in, for monetary rewards or whatever.
06/18/00 14:43:24 (GR) cool
06/18/00 14:43:35 (Petarius) how can you risk your life in a game though
06/18/00 14:43:47 (ybbol) that kind of games exist already
06/18/00 14:43:48 (Dan_Glimne) Cool? Not quite the word I would use...
06/18/00 14:44:06 (GR) risk taker here
06/18/00 14:44:22 (Mouse) dosnt sound like much fun
06/18/00 14:44:35 (Dan_Glimne) OK, but I mean computer games, where you are hooked up into a machine that will control heart frequency, breathing etc.
06/18/00 14:44:35 (MSO_Admin) Do you think that "The Running Man" was any more than science fiction?
06/18/00 14:44:50 (GR) great point Admin
06/18/00 14:44:57 (ybbol) that kind of game was in one 007 movie
06/18/00 14:45:02 (Dan_Glimne) I'll answer that in the year 2050...
06/18/00 14:45:15 (Petarius) I dont know about that
06/18/00 14:45:17 (GR) in Never Say Never Again
06/18/00 14:45:20 (MSO_Admin) Would you like to be involved in designing such a game!?
06/18/00 14:45:23 (Petarius) Bond rules
06/18/00 14:45:28 (GR) sure does
06/18/00 14:45:30 (Dan_Glimne) No. I draw the line at that.
06/18/00 14:45:41 (TheMazeMan) I agree. I enjoy life.
06/18/00 14:45:46 (Petarius) But where do you have the proof to suggest that games are heading in that direction
06/18/00 14:46:04 (TheMazeMan) logic and advances in methods.
06/18/00 14:46:21 (TheMazeMan) logic indicates that SOME people will take the risk, they like the adrenalin rush.
06/18/00 14:46:25 (Dan_Glimne) The answer lies in man's use of new technology - dynamite, biotech stuff, whatever.
06/18/00 14:46:31 (Petarius) But I mean playing a game and risking you life for money just seems to extreme
06/18/00 14:46:31 (Mouse) wow
06/18/00 14:46:31 (TheMazeMan) Science already provides the methods.
06/18/00 14:46:52 (Petarius) I mean poker hasnt change in anyway
06/18/00 14:46:52 (Dan_Glimne) There will always be people reaching for the extreme.
06/18/00 14:47:12 (MSO_Admin) I wonder if we could turn bungee jumping into a game somehow? :-)
06/18/00 14:47:13 (Dan_Glimne) Not all games will change, of course, but new hi-tech means new games.
06/18/00 14:47:37 (TheMazeMan) I suspect that once someone introduces this kind of extreme, we'll find it relegated to back rooms and shunned by the majority. (For example, it's hard to find where the cockfights are anymore, most people disagree with them).
06/18/00 14:47:41 (Dan_Glimne) Bungee jumping? Sure, whoever comes closest to the ground without hitting wins.
06/18/00 14:47:53 (GR) :-)
06/18/00 14:47:58 (TheMazeMan) sounds like shuffleboard.
06/18/00 14:48:08 (Petarius) Thats a pretty cynical way to look at things
06/18/00 14:48:12 (Dan_Glimne) Yes -- those games where you risk life and limb will surely be illegal in any civilized country.
06/18/00 14:48:18 (GR) ky diving....when to open parachute so you dont die.....if you die..you lose..kind of thing
06/18/00 14:48:22 (Mouse) enjoys challenging yet friendly board games.. not a big risk taker
06/18/00 14:48:46 (TheMazeMan) same here. I enjoy the play, but not the risks.
06/18/00 14:48:57 (Mouse) exactly
06/18/00 14:48:58 (Petarius) But stuff like that goes out of style, like playing chicken off the edge of a cliff
06/18/00 14:49:09 (Dan_Glimne) The main attraction in board games is of course the intellectual challenge, not to mention the social interaction.
06/18/00 14:49:28 (TheMazeMan) true, very true. you don't see high school students playing chicken anymore.
06/18/00 14:49:30 (MSO_Admin) So why is it OK to risk assets (eg money) if not limbs or life?
06/18/00 14:49:51 (TheMazeMan) you can always earn money back. Can you earn your life back?
06/18/00 14:49:55 (Dan_Glimne) In ANY form of human activity you will see extreme forms... Driving, eating, making physical love...
06/18/00 14:50:01 (GR) i bet Maze would be the one that buys all the extra property in Monopoly just to prolong the game
06/18/00 14:50:05 (Petarius) I feel drugs and disease in the future as a bigger threat then games
06/18/00 14:50:21 (TheMazeMan) I've had times that I made deliberately crazy deals just to make the game go longer.
06/18/00 14:50:29 (Petarius) hah
06/18/00 14:50:30 (GR) ((grins))
06/18/00 14:50:32 (Petarius) Thats fun
06/18/00 14:50:32 (Mouse) lol
06/18/00 14:50:47 (Dan_Glimne) Seems we've all played Monopoly here...
06/18/00 14:50:48 (TheMazeMan) My stepson used to get mad at me when I'd make a deal that let his sister stay in the game, until he figured out that the game went longer as a result.
06/18/00 14:50:51 (Petarius) Ive done that once, but accidently screwed myself over
06/18/00 14:51:06 (Petarius) hah
06/18/00 14:51:11 (TheMazeMan) I may have lost that particular game, but in my case, I play for the playing, not necessarily to win.
06/18/00 14:51:20 (GR) me too
06/18/00 14:51:22 (Petarius) true
06/18/00 14:51:29 (TheMazeMan) My problem now is in a rural community, very few opponents.
06/18/00 14:51:52 (Petarius) I guess the true satisfaction comes from the social interaction as well as just the enjoyment of the game played
06/18/00 14:52:01 (MSO_Admin) I play for fun, but I find it more fun when I win. (That said, I'd rather lose a really entertaining game than win a dull one...)
06/18/00 14:52:03 (Dan_Glimne) Usually I too prefer to play for the sake of the game, but at the same time I also always strive to win (in a gentlemanly fashion) and expect everyone else to do the same.
06/18/00 14:52:08 (TheMazeMan) I keep a monopoly, cribbage, chinese checkers, and a few other games down at the "general store" just to be able to enjoy them when I can.
06/18/00 14:52:20 (Petarius) But you also have to consider with all games, comes competition, and Humans as a species doesnt like to lose.
06/18/00 14:52:47 (Mouse) some people are more competitive than others
06/18/00 14:52:52 (TheMazeMan) very true.
06/18/00 14:52:53 (Petarius) yeah
06/18/00 14:53:03 (MSO_Admin) OK - this chat session is scheduled to conclude in under 10 minutes' time, so please would people ask their last few questions to Dan Glimne?
06/18/00 14:53:09 (GR) have you ever noticed that men are better losers than women..or is that a sweeping misstatement?
06/18/00 14:53:18 (Dan_Glimne) At the same time, you learn to lose via games, and all of us will be losers in one situation or another -- we don't get that job, our girlfriend prefers someone else, etc.
06/18/00 14:53:20 (Petarius) ...this is off the record but how many people here have played Legend of Manam
06/18/00 14:53:22 (Mouse) very
06/18/00 14:53:35 (Petarius) bah mana
06/18/00 14:53:47 (Mouse) sexist comment :o)
06/18/00 14:53:54 (Dan_Glimne) I haven't played nor heard of Legend of Manam -- what is it?
06/18/00 14:53:59 (GR) i was trying to keep it unsexist
06/18/00 14:54:05 (Petarius) sorry
06/18/00 14:54:08 (Petarius) It was Legend of Mana
06/18/00 14:54:34 (Petarius) The main song I found is in swedish, so I dont know the lyrics, made me mad
06/18/00 14:54:49 (Dan_Glimne) I don't know if men are better losers -- but men play more than women, and it is part of (most) men's culture to lose graciously and congratulate the opponent.
06/18/00 14:54:53 (MSO_Admin) OK, questions for Dan Glimne, please: Sweden's foremost game designer, poker expert, author and more?
06/18/00 14:55:17 (Dan_Glimne) Thanks for those kind words...
06/18/00 14:55:38 (Dan_Glimne) Well, anyone?
06/18/00 14:55:45 (GR) Ok..if i had an idea for a game who would I contact first?
06/18/00 14:55:48 (ybbol) How many game inventors are there in Sweden/nordic?
06/18/00 14:56:13 (Dan_Glimne) Contact an agent -- Anjar in New York, Seven Towns in London, Bar-David in Tel-Aviv...
06/18/00 14:56:39 (GR) how far down the creative/designing stage would i have to be?
06/18/00 14:56:49 (Dan_Glimne) There are very few games inventors in Sweden (or the other Nordic countries). As far as I know, I am the only full-time one.
06/18/00 14:57:01 (MSO_Admin) Do you regard yourself more as a game designer, an author or a game designer who often finds it convenient to publish his games in books?
06/18/00 14:57:20 (Dan_Glimne) When you contact an agent, you should have a complete hand-made prototype, rules and all, quite playable.
06/18/00 14:57:43 (GR) Do you tend to spenmd time thinking of new games/ideas (ie allotted time) or do the ideas just hit you inspirationally?
06/18/00 14:58:19 (Dan_Glimne) Money-wise I (for the second year running) made slightly more money last year out of writing than out of games royalties, so I guess that makes me a writer mostly...
06/18/00 14:59:04 (Petarius) My dilemma is that I like to write out the stories, but could I also become a director because I came up with the ideas and how I want them to fit, or will that be a problem
06/18/00 14:59:08 (Dan_Glimne) I often (well reasonably often) get germs of ideas for games, but it always takes hard work to think the whole thing through and actually complete a game.
06/18/00 14:59:50 (Mouse) are you working on anything new at the present time?
06/18/00 15:00:15 (Dan_Glimne) Petarius, if you want to write RPG material, why don't you contact a suitable publisher? Most of them are always looking for new material.
06/18/00 15:00:29 (Petarius) I will
06/18/00 15:00:33 (Dan_Glimne) Mouse, Yes, I am working on two new board games presently.
06/18/00 15:00:43 (Mouse) oh wonderful
06/18/00 15:00:51 (Petarius) but I have such a big idea, I mean the way its, the story spans a long time, a saga
06/18/00 15:00:57 (Petarius) cool
06/18/00 15:00:59 (Mouse) oh will they make it to the US?
06/18/00 15:01:00 (Petarius) more board games
06/18/00 15:01:09 (Dan_Glimne) So did Lord of the Rings, but Tolkien got it finished.
06/18/00 15:01:20 (MSO_Admin) Can you tell us more about them, Dan, or do we have to wait for the finished products?
06/18/00 15:01:24 (Petarius) but thats a book
06/18/00 15:01:34 (GR) (and a film soon)
06/18/00 15:01:40 (Dan_Glimne) I don't know if they will make it to the US, but my recent game Sky Runner did...
06/18/00 15:01:48 (MSO_Admin) (and a game not long after the film!)
06/18/00 15:01:50 (Petarius) I'd like to turn this into a game, yet I know game publishers are looking for money, and I dont want a game series to go unfinishesd
06/18/00 15:01:58 (Mouse) I will have to look it up then
06/18/00 15:02:00 (Dan_Glimne) I am sorry I can't go into details about my game projects...
06/18/00 15:02:03 (Petarius) Bilboa baggins
06/18/00 15:02:19 (ybbol) does it ever happen that one invents a game and afterwards someone notices that it was already invented in 1958
06/18/00 15:02:36 (Dan_Glimne) Similarities will occur.
06/18/00 15:02:44 (MSO_Admin) Fair enough. Reiner Knizia is similarly professional about his forthcoming releases...
06/18/00 15:02:45 (GR) i guess patents are a big part fo the game design world
06/18/00 15:02:55 (MSO_Admin) ...it's very frustrating to an eager fan!
06/18/00 15:03:04 (Dan_Glimne) The poet and writer Goethe said: "Everything has been thought of before, the trick is to think of it again"...
06/18/00 15:03:06 (Petarius) yeah
06/18/00 15:03:17 (GR) ((claps))
06/18/00 15:03:23 (Petarius) yay
06/18/00 15:03:39 (Dan_Glimne) Patents -- you cannot patent a game as an abstract mechanism.
06/18/00 15:04:06 (Dan_Glimne) Only physical things can be patented (though the law was different half a century ago.)
06/18/00 15:04:20 (MSO_Admin) It is past the appointed finishing time, so we will reluctantly have to let Dan Glimne return to the Real World.
06/18/00 15:04:26 (Petarius) hah try to patent a thought
06/18/00 15:04:29 (MSO_Admin) I'm happy to carry this on as long as Dan is
06/18/00 15:04:32 (Dan_Glimne) Thanks, everyone -- I enjoyed this!
06/18/00 15:04:41 (Petarius) By Dan! You Rule!
06/18/00 15:04:48 (Mouse) nice meeting you
06/18/00 15:04:50 (GR) bye
06/18/00 15:04:52 (MSO_Admin) but he is a very busy gentleman: too many books and games to write, too many hands of poker to play!
06/18/00 15:04:52 (Dan_Glimne) Thanks! (Bows low)
06/18/00 15:05:01 (MSO_Admin) Thank you very much indeed for your time and thoughts, Dan.
06/18/00 15:05:02 (ybbol) bye
06/18/00 15:05:06 (MSO_Admin) We have all enjoyed it very much indeed.
06/18/00 15:05:06 (Dan_Glimne) Bye.
06/18/00 15:05:11 (Petarius) see ya
06/18/00 15:05:15 (MSO_Admin) and have covered some excellent topics.
06/18/00 15:05:21 (Dan_Glimne) Keep gaming!
06/18/00 15:05:24 (MSO_Admin) This particular session will last long in my memory.
06/18/00 15:05:27 (Petarius) try and stop me
06/18/00 15:05:34 (MSO_Admin) We certainly _will_ keep gaming!
06/18/00 15:05:47 (MSO_Admin) For instance, we can play games online free at the MSO site
06/18/00 15:05:53 (Dan_Glimne) OK, am looging out (past midnight here) See you at MSO4!!
06/18/00 15:05:53 (Petarius) hahah
06/18/00 15:05:56 (MSO_Admin) and we have recently added Go and Backgammon to the list of games we offer.
06/18/00 15:05:57 (GR) nice plug
06/18/00 15:05:59 (Mouse) i know and it is so wonderful
06/18/00 15:06:06 (Petarius) MSO
06/18/00 15:06:08 (MSO_Admin) Thanks again to Dan Glimne
06/18/00 15:06:31 (MSO_Admin) We look forward to seeing him at the Mind Sports Olympiad where he will act as Chief Arbiter.
06/18/00 15:06:38 (Petarius) nice promoting
06/18/00 15:06:41 (Petarius) cool
06/18/00 15:06:41 (Mouse) oh this was so much fun.. does it mean we have to actually leave now?
06/18/00 15:06:58 (MSO_Admin) Elsewhere on our site, the $500 creative thinking contest continues apace
06/18/00 15:07:13 (Petarius) ack gotta go, Fathers day stuff!
06/18/00 15:07:14 (MSO_Admin) and we will have more programming and trivia cash prize contests in the coming weeks.
06/18/00 15:07:18 (Petarius) Peace out
06/18/00 15:07:21 (MSO_Admin) The message boards carry on strong too...
06/18/00 15:07:24 (GR) god chris...... do you have an auto-commercial/plug key?
06/18/00 15:07:34 (MSO_Admin) ...please sign the petition for the Millennium of the Mind and the Century of the Brain.
06/18/00 15:07:39 (MSO_Admin) For MSO Worldwide,
06/18/00 15:07:42 (MSO_Admin) this is Chris Dickson
06/18/00 15:07:47 (Petarius) too much promoting
06/18/00 15:07:50 (Petarius) I cant take it
06/18/00 15:07:54 (Mouse) applauds Chris Dickson
06/18/00 15:07:56 (MSO_Admin) uncontrollably laughing at my own "subtlety"
06/18/00 15:07:59 (Petarius) My brain will explode
06/18/00 15:08:00 (MSO_Admin) and signing out.
06/18/00 15:08:04 (MSO_Admin) Good night!
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