GR

Good afternoon from the USA.

biba

Well, I'm all set now - Sharen has just brought me a pint of beer!

GR

How ironic, I've just opened a Coors lite!

biba

Hi GR, good evening from England. Good to see you.

GR

Hi, Michael!

biba

Do you have a first name, GR?

GR

Yes, I'm Garret.

MSO_Admin

I need to disappear for a moment (not to get a reciprocal beer!)

biba

Whereabouts in the USA are you?

GR

Georgia - just south of Atlanta. By the way, I love your write-ups of the BIBA torunaments; you have a very unique style.

biba

Where do you read them? The BIBA site or the MSO site?

GR

At the MSO site.

biba

Did you read my world championship report?

GR

Yes, I did. Fascinating!

biba

What do you think of my ideas?

GR

Intriguing...

MSO_Admin

Sorry about that, back now.

GR

What actually happened in 1977?

biba

Is this regarding world championships?

GR

Yes, regarding world championships - were there two parallel world championships for a while?

biba

In 1977 there was a championship in USA and in Monte Carlo, so who knows who is the world champion?

GR

...and were they were both dubbed the World Championships?

biba

Yes they were, so my theory that Kate Scalamander is the third woman not the second is correct. Do you agree?

GR

Yes, I think you are right, but is there any kind of international BG governing body?

biba

No, there is not an international federation, but Michael Strato, myself and a few others are discussing the possibility of such a body, but it will be a long hard job getting BG players interested. Do you think there is such a need Garret?

cat

Hello!

MSO_Admin

Hi Cat! Thanks for joining the chat session.

cat

You are very welcome; I love backgammon!

GR

I would like to see a structured world organisation in many mind sports.

biba

This is perhaps something the MSO can take on board - eh, Chris?

MSO_Admin

Certainly it's something for the Mind Sports Council - the governing body which sanctions the MSO and which is interested in the organisation and promotion of all mind sports - to consider.

biba

Good, Chris.

So where are you from, Cat?

cat

Oh, Texas here, sorry.

GR

I would also like to see a European tour of BG.....unless there already is one and I just don't know of it.

biba

GR, there's no European Tour at the moment - but who knows...?

GR

BG isn't notably very big here in the US, at least in the club scene.

cat

How long have you been playing?

biba

Cat, I have been playing since the early '70s...

cat

Wow!

biba

How long have you two been playing?

cat

I haven't been playing long but love the game. I play it mostly against the computer.

biba

BG is very big in the States....

cat

Oh, yes?

biba

Check out the web sites; a lot of BG is played in the States.

cat

I play on the downloadable version of Jellyfish and sometimes in Yahoo.

GR

I am 26 and have been playing for 8 years.

biba

GR, I have been playing longer than you have been born.... and still have a lot to learn!

GR

Oh, I dont claim to be a whizz. I reckon I've played over 2000 games, though. I don't get into equities that much.

biba

I don't understand equities at all, never shall!

GR

My doubling skills are non-existent, but my win-loss ratio is good.

cat

Question: if you could change anything about the game, what would it be?

biba

Oh dear me, I will have to think about that!

cat

I would love to be able to control those dice!

biba

A change I would like to make is to make people play a little faster in tournaments, so as to avoid clocks.

cat

It is time consuming to play all of the possible moves for one roll in your head.

GR

I play pretty fast and often end up regretting it, perhaps an average of 20 seconds per move. I travelled to Turkey in 1995 and played some street BG (not Tavla but just on the street outside coffee houses) and, man, those guys are fast!!!!! But they aren't unbeatable.

biba

I know about Turkey. Have you read my articles on Turkish BG on the MSO web site?

GR

Yes, I have. We werent playing Tavla, though.

cat

No, I am sorry to say I haven't, but I will soon.

GR

It's as if the Turkish guys already know every possible move from every possible roll each turn; when the dice stop, the move is instant.

biba

They are born to it - Hussein on the web site is the fastest I have ever played.

cat

What is Tavla?

biba

Tavla is Turkish BG.

cat

May I ask what the difference is?

biba

They don't use the cube, they don't have Backgammons and the dice are the size of dried peas! :-)

GR

http://www.msoworld.com/mindzine/news/classic/bg/tavla.html

cat

Hmmmmmmm, interesting. Which is your favorite form to play?

biba

Pure backgammon, but I do like playing Turks.

cat

Do you play on line ever?

biba

No, I don't .... I'm too busy working at BG. It is my full time job.

Terrible

How good are the best BG programs?

biba

Very good; Jellyfish 3.5 and Snowie Professional play at world class level.

cat

I love Jellyfish.

Loek

I have thought of starting to play backgammon...

biba

You don't play BG?

Loek

What skills do I need to have to become a good player?

biba

If you can add up to 36 you can play it. It's like ludo with dice and is very competitive.

Loek

Do i need good memory?

biba

It helps.

Loek

Do I need to memorize openings, as in chess?

biba

Yes, you do, but only opening rolls, there is no set pettern as in chess.

cat

What kind of opening move would you make with 6 and 3?

biba

There are two ways I would play it.....

cat

Bad question, isn't it? ;o)

biba

It's not a bad question at all! The two ways are to run with a back man or to move one back man 6 mid point 3.

cat

I always am so terrified of taking chances.

biba

BG is all about taking calculated chances - it is a game of probabilities.

cat

It seems like I finally leave one open and, zoom, they have me!

biba

Getting hit is an opportunity to start again.

cat

Maybe once I have played longer I will be more comfortable.

biba

Yes and you often have to get your men back into the game to help your timing.

cat

I've heard mention of domino backgammon as well...?

biba

Yes, there is a game called domino BG where the moves are played according to the dominoes - 6:1, 6:2 and so on.

cat

Yes; I will stick with BG itself.

momo

Um, why can't there be money prizes in the UK? Doesn't this put a damper on events?

biba

It is against the law to gamble without a licence in England and therefore we cannot offer "prize money". However, at BIBA, we have a private members only agreement that provides prize money - but you don't have to win the competition to win the mmoney!

momo

So you don't have to win to get the money? How does that work?

biba

Momo, it works thus: members pay into a pool and the two highest placed finishers share the pool 70/30.

cat

Why would anyone in their right mind want to gamble on a game... a topic for another chat later, I suppose. BG is all about skill and luck.

biba

The gaming board recognise it only as a game of luck as dice are used to determine play.

cat

But it takes skill to know how to move!

GR

There's an ancient common law of Engalnd - cribbage is gambling too. It's written in stone in most pubs in England, usually on a plaque.

Terrible

Why cannot it be played for money like other mind sports?

biba

Because it is a game of chance. Despite the fact that there is no "prize money" in UK BG, we have a very healthy tournament schedule, averaging 80 players per tournament.

GR

Michael, I have to go. It's been nice that you could answer some of my questions. Keep the reports coming; I look forward to your next one!

biba

Bye, GR! I look forward to talking to you again.

cat

So, MSO_Admin, do you play BG?

MSO_Admin

Seldom, though I actually played at MSO I in the "Backgammon for Beginners" tournament there.

cat

How did you do in it?

MSO_Admin

Despite having only played one or two times before I managed to win one match out of five and managed not to disgrace myself too badly so I thought that I mostly got away with it! :-)

cat

Cool! :o)

momo

I am curious to know which textbook you would most recommend.

biba

Bill Robertie's "Advanced Backgammon", volume 1 and 2; Magriel's BG; in fact, anything that keeps you learning about BG.

Loek

Didn't Robertie play chess?

biba

Yes, he did.

Loek

Yes, Robertie was US blitz chess champion, wasn't he?

Terrible

There aren't any of his games in Chessbase's Bigbase.

momo

I have tried to get Magriel, but it was an expensive, out-of-print title. Has it been reprinted?

biba

I recommend Magriel's BG to everybody as it deals with all aspects of checker play, tactics, theory, doubling etc. Yes, the Magriel book has been reprinted; I sell them myself (plug, plug)!

cat

(lol) I will have to remember that!

momo

So Magriel is back in print?

biba

Yes. Magriel's is an exact copy of his original book and, although 20 years old, still worthwhile.

Reggie

Michael, in Crane rules #5 you actually changed the way I played BG. I had always tried to get out of tricky situations by not moving the bigger roll and so on. Thank you for correcting the play of me and my friends.

biba

Hello Reggie. Have you found the BG articles helpful?

momo

Are there a lot of chessplayers playing backgammon? I see Paul Lamford writes for the MSO and someone said Robertie too.

biba

There are many chess players who play BG - Paul is a champion at both.

momo

Really?

biba

Paul is champion at everything... :-)

Loek

I think he is a chess international master; he is one of those people who will learn everything!

momo

In NY the game rooms are often split between chess and backgammon, with most doing both.

daWhiz

Yeah, I noticed at the World Open that a few people were playing BG for money... =)

cat

Michael, how did you first get interested in BG?

biba

I first got interested in BG when my father bought me a cheap £1 board. I had a difficult time understanding the instructions, therefore I went out and bought Magriel's BG and never looked back!

daWhiz

Michael, how could we get more people to play BG considering that many own a set and don't know how to play it?

biba

daWhiz, that is a difficult question to answer. It is a matter of communication; the web has made a big difference, but we still cannot get to the majority of people that do own a board but do not know how to play properly.

Loek

What kind of character traits would I need to enjoy backgammon? Really!

biba

Competitiveness and the ability to smile when losing.

Loek

I want to find a new game that I will enjoy for years.

biba

Loek, this is it!

momo

I wonder if it is possible to improve without getting too involved with mathematics and tables?

biba

Momo, yes; I know nothing about maths or tables but have enjoyed playing for almost 30 years. I even taught my wife - which was a mistake as she can now beat me!

momo

I find it hard to accept being beaten by incredible series of rolls.

biba

momo, but what about when you win by an incredible series of rolls?

momo

Yes, i was going to say winning by an incredible series of roll is very amusing.

daWhiz

Michael, I've heard rumors that there are really techniques for throwing dice to get the exact number you want, is this at all true?

biba

Yes, it can be - but it doesn't happen very often, as most serioous players will only play using precision dice. These are dice engineered to give a perfect cube shape. However, in Turkey, it is considered a skill and part of the game to roll the dice you want! :-)

Loek

Do you practice dice rolls?

biba

Loek; no, there is no need to practice rolling dice, unless you intend to cheat.

daWhiz

Oh OK, but don't professional roll dice out of cups or am I wrong there?

biba

Dice cups with lips are used to ensire fair rolls. Sometimes baffle boxes are used too; these are boxes which allow the dice to tumble and come out randomly.

momo

How do top players do against the best computers?

biba

Top players regularly beat the computers, which is why we all aspire to be a top player - hence Snowie and Jellyfish are important to develop our skills and become better players.

cat

Playing against a real person is more fun than the computer though. It always seems to me like the computer cheats! :o)

momo

Are BG programs better than 99% of players, like in chess?

biba

momo, BG programmes are not yet at the level of chess programmes, but I think in the future they will be better and stronger and eventually even beat the world's top players.

cat

That will be a sad day.

Loek

I find that surprising; it'll only be as sad as the day when cars outran people.

Reggie

Sometimes I have seen the freeware jellyfish make crazy moves. I guess it isn't as well made as the proper JF.

biba

Reggie, which Jellyfish version are you using?

Reggie

It was on my old computer; alas, I have not donwloaded it yet, so I can't remember.

biba

Playing levels on the tutor and analyzer versions are much stronger on the higher levels. Any BG player can lose to a computer, but over a long period the better player will always win.

Reggie

My wife sometimes uses another piece of freeware from Tower Software, but it's very basic and pretty buggy. It will roll doubles like crazy during the bearoff!

biba

What is this programme from Tower Software - is it a neural net program?

Reggie

I don't know. I've never liked it as it is slow and crappy, so I couldn't tell you.

cat

I believe that I read somewhere about a famous BG player getting beat by a computer. It was on the MSO site, and the article was called "Man versus machine", I think.

biba

John Broomfield was the man that lost to the machine; perhaps this year he will prevail.

cat

I hope so!

biba

I would only recommend Mastergammon, Jellyfish, and Snowie - all of which I sell! :-)

Reggie

Are any of them freeware?

biba

Snowie and Jellyfish are available online, but the versions you pay for have all the features....

momo

Which is the strongest?

biba

Snowie is stronger, with Jellyfish a very close second.

Terrible

Do you ever regret choosing a dice game after losing to a beginner?

Loek

Nice question - but at least if you lose a dice game, you always have an excuse, unlike in other games.

biba

Beginners only learn by beating better players. I don't like losing, but it is part of the game.

daWhiz

Loek, there's plenty of excuses in Chess... Heh!

momo

Is there a player who is generally acknowledged as the best in the world?

biba

Best in the world? That's a matter of personal opinion. Once upon a time, I would have said Robertie, but now there are so many VERY GOOD players that saying one is best in all the world is hard.

Reggie

Are there international rankings or seedings? Was kate Scalamndre's victory unprecedented in the World Championships?

biba

I don't subscribe to the best in the world being the World Champion, with no disrespect to Katie. She was the third woman to win the World Championship.

cat

I am glad to see there is a game that women are taking an active interest in - and winning! :o)

biba

Go women!

Loek

It is a dice game...

daWhiz

Hee hee!

Loek

Sorry, i couldn't resist! On another matter, are there famous celebrities who play BG at the top level? In my country there is a famous TV and movie personality who is the national champion.

Reggie

Who is the best celebrity BG player?

biba

Omar is the most famous. I played Omar Sharif in 1974; he beat me.

momo

I thought Sharif was the most famous bridge player?

biba

He is, but he also plays BG.

momo

He gets around!

Loek

Rich people have time to play games...

biba

True.

Reggie

...poor web designers do not.

biba

True again!

momo

But isn't there a lot of money in backgammon?

biba

Yes and not much of it is coming my way!

momo

Lots of betting, too...

Loek

They played a lot of BG in the Tv series "Dallas".

biba

Yes - the pieces were wooden as were the actors!

daWhiz

Has there ever been talk of a Michael Crane vs. the world match?

biba

They wouldn't stand a chance!

daWhiz

That's what they said about Kaspy too!

Terrible

What's your funniest memory from a BG game?

biba

My friend Jeff Ellis rolling double 3, 3 consecutive times. See the MSO web site. We cried with laughter at his unfortunate luck.

Reggie

(BG movie trivia: which is the only Bond film to feature BG?)

Loek

Well, "From russia with love" featured chess - did it feature BG as well?

biba

Tell me which Bond film featured BG.

Reggie

Octopussy. Bond, played by Moore, faces Bad guy and henchman in India; a henchman predictably crushes the loaded dice after Bond rumbles the bad guy and wins the game with a box.

biba

I remember that!

cat

Will you give us details of how to order the Magriel book?

Reggie

Tell me more about BIBA. If i lived in the UK, how would I join? Is there a standard you have to attain to gain entry or be able to enter tournaments? What perks are there?

biba

BIBA was formed in 1990, and joining is very easy; just send me your name and address and I will send you details. As long as you have an idea of how to play, there is no set standard. If you all email me with your name and postal address, I will send you complimentary copies of issue 52 of Bibafax, the Biba Magazine, which contains all the details for ordering books and so on.

cat

Cool! Thank you!

daWhiz

Well, I gotta go; keep playing, guys!

MSO_Admin

Thanks for coming, daWhiz - hope you enjoyed it.

daWhiz

Yep, it was cool!

Loek

Is there BG art anywhere on the net?

biba

Yes, there is BG art on the net. Check out the MSO links, go to the Chicago Point site and there is a link to BG art there.

Loek

Thanks.

Reggie

One piece I would like to see on the MSO site would be an in-depth history of backgammon.

biba

History we will do one day - I already have done a piece in an earlier Bibafax, which I might recycle.

Reggie

That would be great; I love reading about the history of games. So when did backgammon come about?

biba

Thousands of years ago.

cat

I think as many people play it for relaxation as do for the competition.

biba

Perhaps more for relaxation.

cat

That's why I play it - that is, until I have been beaten too many times! :o)

biba

My wife only plays for relaxation.

cat

Does she play against you?

biba

Only on holiday - we argue too much!

cat

Ha ha ha! Has she ever beaten you?

biba

Too often!

Reggie

My wife just gets grumpy when I beat her; we can't stop playing till she wins one back!

cat

lol

biba

Yes, I know how that is! Ha ha!

momo

My wife insists I am lucky and only lucky!

Reggie

Also true here!

biba

My wife IS lucky. I am always beaten by lucky players - I can beat the skillful ones!

Terrible

Do you have to beat your wife?

biba

Only if she doesn't let me win!

Reggie

Here's me, wishing for a box (double six), doing the usual blowing on the dice and so on, then it actually comes out - I am, like, "Woo hoo!" but she is sulking and saying I "always" roll doubles!

biba

Ha ha ha!

momo

Sounds familiar...

cat

You must have trick dice - speaking from a wife's point of view, it is nice to win sometimes.

biba

cat, does your husband play?

cat

Well, sometimes.

momo

Is there a problem with improving at backgammon - that you get lazy because you feel that you win because of skill and lose due to bad luck?

biba

You can get complacent, but most games are won by skill and occasionally by luck. The difference between a good player and a bad player is that the good player will play the bad rolls well; the bad player will play them badly and then complain about the dice.

Reggie

I often blame my wins on luck when in actual fact I might be more skilful than I think I am - but then again...?

biba

You probably are better than you think you are.

cat

I usually blame the dice, though I haven't learned all of the proper moves yet.

biba

Check out opening rolls by looking on MSO site - the "Beginners - Look!" section.

momo

Is there a region in the world that is particularly strong at backgammon?

Reggie

Turkey, momo.

biba

America was the strongest and indeed might still be but Europeans are coming up quickly: Meyburg, Grandell etc. The Turks are instinctive players but not at international backgammon.

momo

Armenia?

biba

momo, define strong?

momo

I just have this impression that Armenians have a lot of top players. When I was in the USA it seemed like most of the top players had Armenian names. Maybe they were Armenian-Americans?

biba

They do get around a lot, and they do seem to have the money to enter big tournaments. If this makes you strong then, yes, they are strong.

momo

Papasian was big at the time.

biba

Who is Papasian?

momo

He was a top US player some years back - I thought he was well known?

biba

Do you mean Chuck, who wrote BG Master Games with Bill Kennedy?

momo

Yes, Chuck Papasian. He was a colorful guy.

biba

I have his book here.

Reggie

Michael, here's a multiple choice question - which of the following is your personal worst way to lose:

A. By a gammon or backgammon;

B. The opponent bearing off with a double in the final roll;

C. Having two pieces on your 2 point and rolling 21?

C is my least favourite way to lose.

biba

B is my choice, I hate those dice.

Terrible

What is your best way to lose?

biba

With dignity!

Reggie

Fair enough!

biba

Actually, my favourite way to lose is if I am playing my wife for sex :-))))

Reggie

(Why is that familiar?)

MSO_Admin

Sidenote: Dan Glimne was our last guest but one and he too suggested that the only acceptable non-monetary stake for a game was sex. Funny how poker and backgammon go together well... :-)

Terrible

What are the measurements of the official dice?

biba

They vary in size, but 9/16" dice are preferred.

I am pleased that people turned up, and I thank you all. Do you have any final questions?

Reggie

What beer do you drink?

biba

Bitter.

Reggie

What type?

biba

Boddingtons bitter.

momo

Ruddles County.

biba

Lovely!

Reggie

At the BIBA tourneys is there much fun and frivolity (and drinking!) as well as the games?

biba

Yes, loads! Next time you are in England I will buy you a pint, momo - and you, Reggie and Terrible.

momo

Ah, sounds good. Ruddles is a rare treat!

Reggie

Thanks!

momo

Thanks, I hope to take you up on that some BG day!

MSO_Admin

Not one for me, though, I'm teetotal :-)

biba

Okay, an OJ for you!

MSO_Admin

Cheers! :-)

biba

Okay, everyone, I thank you all for coming to my little chat - if there are no more questions we can call it a night - or a day, depending on where you are...

MSO_Admin

I understand there will be some more technical backgammon articles coming up soon: Rick Janowski's Cube Formula.

biba

Yes, this is pehaps one of the most important papers ever written.

Reggie

BIBA tourneys are normally the first week of the month, right, Michael?

biba

Yes, mostly.

momo

I was just curious if Mr. Crane was going to report live from some major event again soon?

biba

Momo, call me Michael - then lobby David Levy at the MSO and insist that I am sent to Istanbul and Monte Carlo! :-)

momo

what is the next really big event then?

biba

MSO BG Championships and the British Open August 19 to 28. The defending British Open Champion is Neil Kazaross.

momo

Well, I hope that will be covered live!

biba

I am having to work there and I will do what I can; I will try to get copy out each day.

MSO_Admin

Thanks very much :-) The more backgammon news we can feature the better!

cat

It was a pleasure meeting you, Mr. Crane!

biba

And you too, cat!

cat

Everyone, have a wonderful evening. Bye bye!

biba

Bye bye!

MSO_Admin

Thank you all for turning up, and we all thank you for hosting it, Michael. It would be far less interesting without a star guest, after all!

biba

That's me, a star!

momo

Thanks very much for the chat!

biba

You're welcome!

Reggie

Yes... it's been great.

biba

Thank you Admin, thank you momo.

momo

Thank you and good night.

MSO_Admin

No, thank you, Michael, for an interesting and lively chat session! The Mind Sports Olympiad event, starts from next weekend - we hope to see you all there, doubtless inspired by the offer of free drinks! You can read more Michael Crane in the Mind Sports Zine. Nobody reviews tournaments quite like he does and we're proud to feature his write-ups.

biba

Don't forget to e-mail your names and addresses for free Bibafaxes. Thank you all again and goodnight - I'm off for another pint!